Hi everyone, I’m Ann Emerson and this is Crimly Obsessed. Christa Pike, sentenced to death for the 1995 murder of 19-year-old Colleen Slumber, was given not one but two rounds of the lethal drug Pento Barbarbatl, and she was still alive. But we don’t know what kind of state she’s in now.
What happened inside that prison Wednesday night is something even people who have witnessed executions before say they have never seen. Listen to Katherine Sweeney of WPLN, one of the media witnesses who was inside. >> Well, when they told us to leave at 8:53, Christa Pike was still breathing. They did two separate rounds of pintobatital, which I’ve never seen before.
The protocol does say that they should do a second round if the person is still alive. >> And it gets even more troubling. >> She was still breathing at the end. It was very ragged. She lifted her head up and was looking around at one point. She said that um she said that there was a spot that was burning and hurting and asked if that was normal.
>> The curtain closed. Witnesses could still hear her breathing. Eventually, they were told to leave. Pike was later taken from the prison [music] by ambulance for medical care. And here’s the big question. What actually failed? [music] Because this was not like the other failed executions we’ve seen where they couldn’t get [music] an IV started.
The IV was in. >> What failed this time, and this is the first time this has happened, is that the drugs didn’t work. They had the IV established and the drugs didn’t work. >> A Bonowitz spent the day following this execution from the Tennessee State Capital Complex, staying there as the court fight, the execution, and then the confusion stretched late into the night.
He spent decades around death penalty cases. He once supported capital punishment and today he leads death penalty action and [music] even he says this was different. >> You saw reporter after reporter after reporter get up and recite what they saw and heard and felt and experienced and every one of them was you know what the hell did I just see? >> And now what happens to Chrisa Pike? The state says it followed its execution protocol, but that protocol doesn’t spell out what happens when a second [music] round of the drug still doesn’t
result in death. Governor Bill Lee has now halted the one remaining execution scheduled in Tennessee this year and ordered a third-p partyy review to find out exactly what went wrong. So, that’s where I want to start with Abe. What happened in that room last night? [music] And can Tennessee try to execute Chris Pike again? Be sure to like, subscribe, and turn on your notifications.
We’ll be updating this case as we learn more. Now, let’s get into it. A Bonoitz, thank you so much for joining me. Please take me through what happened last night with the Christa Pike execution. Well, the the the if you watch the press conference from the media by the media witnesses immediately after they left the prison, that was the big question.
What did we just see? The w the people that witnessed the executions uh the the attempted execution last night, most of them had seen previous executions. Some of them had seen the previous failed execution. This isn’t a botched execution. It’s a failed execution. Yet again, the prisoner is still alive as far as we know.
U we do know she was carded off in an ambulance and the legal team reported that she was still alive. People supposing what may be the result of having two doses of the drug that they used to kill people in Tennessee. you know, it it they must be getting them off the the the black market or something because whatever they had was bad and whatever damage it did to her is yet to be seen.
>> Can you take me through, it doesn’t have to be hour to hour, but can you take me through that timeline of what happened yesterday when you were uh you know there in Tennessee waiting for this to happen? Um so we typically um Death Penalty action um hosts a live virtual vigil around every execution that takes place in the country.
This would have been the 30th execution this year. Um so we gather folks online via Zoom and then broadcast to our social media and that sort of thing. Uh, so as soon as we popped on um at 9:00 a.m. Central time, there was Reverend Kevin Riggs who was a prison ministry person um that we’ve been working with for a long time in Tennessee uh and saying, “Hey, there’s a stay.
” And you know, he was at his car before going into the protest area at the prison. So, because they they they let you take your car key and your your ID and that’s it. So, he was just getting on to share. Um and then um from then it was just chaos all day because you know we’re waiting for well first the six circuit court of appeals a a three judge panel voted 2 to1 to stay the execution.
The issue in the motion to stay the execution is that uh it turns out the state has admitted that it lied basically to a judge when the question was should Chris Pike testify about uh the sexual abuse she she endured as a child and they just said well she’s a liar. We can’t trust anything she said. And the judge took that and dis and did not allow her testimony.
So that was the challenge because now suddenly you have the state admitting that she actually did suffer sexual abuse as a child from starting at age three as a toddler if you can believe that. Um you know she was totally unprotected in her entire childhood by the people around her. Uh doesn’t excuse what she did but that’s part of the reality and that’s worthy of consideration when we’re talking about how did the person get to a place and should we then therefore be able to kill them.
So anyway, the that was the the the reason for the stay and they were and it was temporary based on you know they had they needed more time to decide do we want to brief this case and have arguments and all that. Meanwhile the state uh appealed to the US Supreme Court to say overturn this stay and let us go ahead and kill Chris Pike.
And that we waited all day. It was after 6:00, I think, uh, Eastern time at least, that I’m not even sure exactly what time they finally said, uh, we’re reversing this day. Go ahead and kill her. >> Well, can you tell me, Abe, what was it like in in the field? Like while you were there, what was the mood like? How were people reacting on both sides? Like what did you see? Well, um, so my my staff and a lot of people that we work with were at the prison.
Um, there was about 40 45 people on the anti-execution side and no more than a dozen on the prodeath penalty side. Um, according to what I was told and uh, basically, you know, it’s a whole lot of hurry up and wait and a whole lot of what’s happening. And especially if you were there at the prison, you got no information because you can’t even have your electronics.
They even take, you know, smartwatches and that sort of thing. They figured out that people have those now. So, uh, for me though, I was in a space of trying to get more information and waiting to understand what happened and meanwhile, uh, being present to the people that, you know, are there because we oppose the death penalty and and trying to help explain what things are.
I’m not an attorney, but Rob Dham from the death penalty policy project is a regular part of our team and he explained things. So, I was in the in a little park that’s immediately that’s part of the the Tennessee State Capital complex. Um, and >> okay, >> media was coming there to interview me and and and basically we were just trying to answer what questions we had and there was no information really until we saw what the US Supreme Court was going to do.
They threw out they they quashed the state said go ahead and kill her. At that point um you know we had all relocated and we’re just monitoring what’s happening waiting to see what the court would do and and then there was no information. This is really probably the most stark reality that people need to understand is that the state was just being was obiscating.
They were just, you know, there was no information. There was never an announcement. We’re moving forward with the execution. Um all we heard was that the media witnesses had been brought back in. The mother of Colleen Slmer, uh the victim in this case had left the prison by noon. Okay, this was and they didn’t even begin the procedure to bring the witnesses, the media witnesses in until after 6 p.m. at some point.
This woman had been waiting three decades on the promise that this execution was going to help her heal. And that’s what she was talking about. I’m going to heal with this execution. Had the the rug yanked out from her yet again. It’s one of the reasons why the death penalty fails victim families because it’s just this false promise that wait till you kill the person then then you’ll feel better but you got to wait decades.
>> So it’s 6:00 p.m. Yeah. So you’re you’ve got the media witnesses are going back in at that point and you know you know at least that they’re they’re planning on going through but you’re kind of in a in a the curtains down right now as far as knowing what’s going on. We had been watching the reporting from, you know, um, Tennessee public radio and the Tennessian, you know, the the the reporters that are the regular witnesses and reporting on this.
And actually, one of our people had a connection to one of the reporters and that person was texting her until they went in um to say, “Okay, now we’re going in.” But there but we didn’t hear anything more until the press conference after when they all came out and every one of them said I don’t know what I just saw. This was I mean because they had the curtains.
This is why one of our campaigns is called pull back the curtains because we believe that the public witnesses should watch an execution from the moment the prisoner is brought into the death chamber until after they’re dead. But instead what they do is they spend they close the curtains and and you can’t nobody the public witnesses cannot see as they try to establish IVs and and and and do all the preparation and then what they do is they open the curtains and the prisoners already if it works properly right >> in this case as was reported by the
witnesses they open the curtains they close the curtains they could hear things they could hear her breathing when they couldn’t see what was going on. It went on for well over an hour. There were at least there were there were two normally would take one syringe full of pentobarbatital which is the drug they’re using in Tennessee.
A single dose a single drug protocol um which is used in some other states. I’m pretty sure Texas uses pentobarbatital as opposed to a third drug protocol where they use several different drugs. One to sedate you then to stop your heart and to stop your breathing. So, they’re using one drug and and by the way, this is the same drug that um I’ve had two dogs and a cat be put down with that drug and I want to die that way.
They’ve died in my arms in less than a minute. Doesn’t seem to work the same way for people and it’s not in all cases and certainly not in Tennessee. >> About a year ago, I was a media witness to a lethal injection in South Carolina with Marian Bowman Jr. And what you’re describing is what was supposed to happen as far as with the curtains and the death.
So, I’m listening very closely to like how long you’re talking about and what they how this curtain goes back and forth. That must have been extremely disturbing for the people that were in that room at that moment. >> Especially any of them who have witnessed an execution the way it’s supposed to go when everything works properly.
You know, one of the witnesses was a woman named Kim Chandler who writes for the Associated Press. I didn’t realize she was going to be in Tennessee. She is the AP reporter for Alabama. Um, and so she’s [clears throat] been involved in in a witness to all the recent Alabama executions, including the gas suffocation executions.
Now, that’s been disallowed, and they’ve gone back to lethal injection, and they just did a lethal injection a few weeks ago. So, she knows exactly what it’s supposed to look like. All of them do. >> Yeah. The curtain does not get pulled back until those IVs are in place and the the drug is is ready to be administered.
Am I right? >> It depends on the state. Okay. In Alabama, that’s one of our campaigns in Alabama, too. Pull back the curtains. We should see what happens from the time the prisoner is wheeled into their in in their wheelchair into the execution chamber as they um are doing in some states with elderly and infirmed prisoners.
Uh, in this case, I’m sure Chris Pike walked in, but uh uh but we should see it from the moment they walk in, every single piece of it because what happened last time with Tony Kurthers in Tennessee was they was the most recent the most recent execution attempt that has now failed twice in a row in in Tennessee with a doctor participating.
>> Talk to me about that, Abe. Was there a doctor at this execution that you know of? >> The same doctor that was unable to establish a central line, which is a direct um entry into a major artery, if I understand it correctly. I’m not a doctor. >> And this is an MD. This is an MD, not a PA, not an NP.
We’re talking an MD as far as you know or we don’t know. >> As far as I know. Yes. And so the same person was participating last night. Yeah, there were a number of questions about Christa’s veins and some blood issue that she has as to whether there would be problems based on those issues based on the experience of the medical community and how those issues may play out.
Apparently, that’s exactly what happened. There was um a failure of the drug to interact properly. I guess again I am I’m not a medical expert >> and and neither am I. But I can tell you that Christa Pike talked about this. We we have this in our documentary at Crimly Obsessed for our viewers to hear. She talks about how they were going to have to go through her hand in order to get an IV line.
>> I have the most horrible nightmares. The only place they can draw my blood is in my hands with a very tiny needle. And I’m so scared that what just happened to Tony Kurthers will happen to me. >> So they knew this was a known problem. >> Just think about it. This morning or whenever, if and when she wakes up, number one, she’s going to wake up still on live and nobody knows how uh conscious mentally she’s going to be another situation.
Is does she have brain damage? We don’t know. Um, and I guess that assessment will come at some point soon. >> Have you ever heard of two lethal injections failing? Um, or that two lethal injections. Is this unprecedented in your opinion of of how they actually tried to get her to die? >> So, what’s unprecedented about this case with Chris Pike is they were actually introducing the drugs.
So the previously the problems with failed executions has been an inability to establish the IVs. So what we’re talking about is you know vein access to the veins. So that’s why Alabama tried to move to to gas suffocation. They had I think seven or eight before the courts disallowed that. But what’s different about this attempted execution, this failed execution in Tennessee last night is that they were able to establish the IV.
Although one of it was reported that Christa ex asked if this is supposed to feel this way. She described pressure in one of her arms. Uh the question is whether there was a blown out vein. I don’t know. Uh but at the end of the day, she um she expressed that she had some pain and and discomfort and you know and and let’s just say who cares if a prisoner feels some pain on their way out.
The Supreme Court has actually said you should expect some pain on your way through an execution. But what failed this time, and this is the first time this has happened, is that the drugs didn’t work. They had the IV established and the drugs didn’t work. She survived two doses when one should be enough. By 11 p.m. last night, we had heard from that the legal team had had confirmed that she was still alive.
>> Well, Abe, I mean, literally, you could see the reaction from the the media witnesses when that ambulance rolled up. It was shock to see a an ambulance and those red lights pull up. As someone who has witnessed an execution, to have that surreal moment where an ambulance is pulling up to do obviously life-saving measures on someone who is supposed to be dead, number one, and is and is supposed to be executed.
This is to me mindblowing. >> I made the assumption that somebody else was in some kind of medical crisis. I mean, >> I did, too. >> Why Why would they have an ambulance for a person that’s supposed to be dead? You know, you saw reporter after reporter after reporter get up and recite what they saw and heard and felt and experienced.
And every one of them was, you know, what the hell did I just see? Because I don’t know. I’ve never seen anything like this. This is highly unusual. I texted one of these reporters that I have a relationship with and said, “Well, you just described your thing, but is she dead?” Nobody could say with certainty, “Was she dead?” And it turns out she wasn’t.
>> Well, they have to call time of death. I mean, that that is part of the whole thing. I remember very clearly when they called the time of death. You can’t send the media witnesses out of the room before she dies. >> And yet, they did. They closed the curtains. They sent everybody out. They took away the the the spiritual adviser.
He’s going to have a story to tell. I’ll tell you that. And then and then not only that, at least they let them all say their peace in the media tent on their liveream. But then they kicked the media out and already they had kicked out the people. This was one of the things I was dealing with last night was trying to get a hold of an ACLU attorney because they had kicked the protesters out.
Did you see May Martinez come back to the to the prison to be let in at any point or do you know if Colleen Slimmer’s mother went back? >> I I have not heard any reporting that she went back. I don’t know. >> The spiritual adviser to Christa Pike is going to have quite a story to tell. We were getting reports that she was singing um that that she was uh communicating, you know, saying that how she wanted to go out.
the spiritual advisor. Have you been able to speak to that person at all or have you do you know anything about that experience of what was going on? Because that is actually to me was unusual that there was singing going on in the in the execution room. >> That’s that’s not necessarily unusual. There’s it just depends on the person.
Chris Pike is um has been a >> I hear praying but I haven’t heard that before. It just depends on the on the on the person and and and a spiritual adviser. In in Christ’s case, she she has been a Buddhist practitioner and she had a Buddhist priest or or or um practitioner, whatever it is, and he was present with her.
>> Was there anybody else there for Christa? Was that just was it the spiritual adviser? >> I would I presume that people from her legal team. Um but I beyond that I don’t think so. I I do know I’m very close to a person that her family asked to be in touch with her for um these last few months and I’ve seen many screenshots of their communications and um I have a recording that I’m not allowed to share just of them talking uh you know so you could see what kind of a person she was or how she was coming across and and they had a
very joyful and positive relationship. I think Christa said it herself. She recognized that, you know, she’s got to die in prison. This is a release of sorts. And that’s really how it is in most cases. Prisoners are being freed from the torture of death row and that ex and and that existence to whatever it comes next to all of us.
And none of us really know what that is until we get there. And um but it’s it’s something different. Your soul is freed. and um and then that is what it is. So so Christa had expressed a positive attitude towards whatever was next and uh and and with the reservation of you know are they going to get it right in terms of getting her in terms of killing her and clearly what you have in 10 in the Tennessee Department of Corrections is an abject failure and incompetence over and over again.
Well, tell me I if you know what the next steps are for Christa Pike, what happens to her? Now, we obviously there’s major questions about her medical condition, but can you tell me what you do know that could happen in the Christa Pike situation as of now? ridiculous as it may seem um with Tony Kurthers who is the guy that they failed to execute in May you know and he’s still recovering from that situation mentally especially um he you know the governor said well there’ll be no execution attempt for a year okay he gets to suffer through the existence in
after the damage they did to him so so now you have the governor has declared no more executions under his watch um so it’s going to be up to the next governor as to, you know, whether these things are allowed to proceed. Nobody has any hope, >> you know. Yes. Uh, Governor Lee’s halted the executions for the rest of this year.
Could you see this, uh, sort of go into a national halt until we figure out what’s going on with the the drugs or the the mechanisms or the method? Is this something that could be prevailing throughout the country? And if that’s the case, how would that happen? >> Well, the answer is no. Unless the court unless somebody is successful with some kind of of appeal to the US Supreme Court.
And again, you should look at the dissents from the ruling last night. That’s why it took so long is because the um the the the more liberal judges had had wrote a descent that was pretty scathing. >> Why did they not just keep on trying to kill her? Like why did they stop? Well, because the attorneys, I’m sure, were I’m told that somebody had literally gotten out of left and driven to the te the Tennessee Supreme Court building.
You know, if you can imagine having to hand deliver anything these days with, but nobody was standing by to take it. Why stop? Because lawyers were saying, “You’ve messed this up. Stop.” and and and they had warned already early on that we don’t trust that you can get it right. And what they warned about came true.
They couldn’t get it right. So they I don’t know that that caused the the halt. I don’t know. I mean, if you were in charge of executing somebody and you have two syringes full of the drug and one of them should do the trick, both of them fail, how do you keep going? You know, my prediction actually is that Tennessee, if they want to keep doing executions, will move to something like the firing squad.
>> Abe, you’ve been on both sides of this argument for a long time. Like I I know because you know from your from your past like this this was a a shift in your am I am I fair in saying that you it was a shift in the way you viewed the death penalty. >> Well the issue is not the method of execution.
You know we my organization death penalty action doesn’t take a position on how we kill our prisoners. It’s that we kill them when the system is so unfair. That’s what made me change my mind because what matters more than the severity of the crime is the location of the crime. You have to kill in a state and and then within that state in a county that can’t afford a death penalty trial at all.
And the vast majority of people that are death eligible don’t end up with a death sentence or an execution. So, how are we picking who gets it? It’s very rarely the worst of the worst. It’s the people with the worst lawyers, the people with no money, the people who kill white people. And what society is telling victim family members is either your loved one wasn’t valuable enough for us to get a death sentence and hold on to it if we did get one.
Uh but the also telling to those where there is a death sentence is wait until we kill the guy and then you’ll feel better. But that means you get to put your healing process on hold for decades. >> And this is what you’re talking about with Colleen Slimmer’s mom. Am I right? Like I am absolutely in no way trying to even pretend that I know the pain and and and and horrific triggering over the last 31 years for that woman.
She is May Martinez has been through hell and back. I mean just period. Is this not what she’s looking for? Is that justice? >> That’s what she’s been told to look for and that’s what she’s been quoted saying in the last few days is I can’t wait for this. You know, finally, I’ve been waiting all this time and what she and had Chris Pike actually been killed, she would wake up today and her daughter would still be dead.
And nothing is ever going to change that. But death by incarceration. I don’t call it life without pool. It’s no life. Prison, living your life out in prison is never touching, never walking barefoot on grass. You got you want to order a pizza, forget it. Um any of that. That’s That’s not life. It’s death by incarceration. Throw away the key.
You’re gonna die in prison. You get sick, get in line, maybe we’ll get you a doctor in a couple weeks. I mean, it’s that that’s that’s the rest of your life. It’s actually worse to have to die in prison of natural or whatever causes rather than to be killed. >> Well, Abe, I want to say thank you so much.
I I know um the way you have looked at you’ve looked at this from both sides of the coin over over many many many years. Um but I want to say thank you very much for joining us and uh we will be interested to see what happens next and how this >> gets gets um resolved. Drop a comment below. I want to hear your thoughts on the Chris Pike case.
This is an unprecedented [music] situation and I’ll be very interested to see what you have to say about it. And be sure to like, subscribe, and turn on your notifications. We’ll be updating this case as we learn more.
